The F-22 Raptor versus the Eurofighter Typhoon: And the winner is…

The F-22 Raptor fifth generation stealth air s...
The F-22 Raptor fifth generation stealth air superiority fighter (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

Well, that depends.  ABC News reports today that America’s incredibly expensive F-22 Raptor has been pitted against Europe’s Typhoon in combat simulations (simulations involving real flying, real pilots, and real aircraft, just not real missiles or bullets) and has found that the results are mixed, though not surprisingly so.

In the ways the F-22 was designed to be superior, apparently it was handily so: super stealthy and the most powerful thing in the air for the long-distance attacks that are the new norm in modern air-based warfare. On this level, the F-22 is apparently everything it is designed to be, as reported by those who “fought” against it:

Two other German officers, Col. Andreas Pfeiffer and Maj. Marco Gumbrecht, noted in the same report that the F-22’s capabilities are “overwhelming” when it comes to modern, long-range combat as the stealth fighter is designed to engage multiple enemies well-beyond the pilot’s natural field of vision – mostly while the F-22 is still out of the other plane’s range. Grumbrecht said that even if his planes did everything right, they weren’t able to get within 20 miles of the next-generation jets before being targeted.

That is pretty amazing.

[Note: I don’t know which last name the reporter spelled correctly: “Gumbrecht” or “Grumbrecht” but the mistake is in the original article.]

But in close combat, one-on-one dogfighting, the F-22 apparently has no particular advantage over its European counterpart:

“But as soon as you get to the merge…” Pfeiffer said, referring to the point at which fighters engage in close-up dog fighting, “in that area, at least, the Typhoon doesn’t necessarily have to fear the F-22 in all aspects… In the dogfight the Eurofighter is at least as capable as the F-22, with advantages in some aspects.”

The Eurofighter Typhoon is the second most exp...
The Eurofighter Typhoon is the second most expensive fighter aircraft in the world after the F-22. (Photo credit: Wikipedia)

The Typhoon and its German pilots apparently held their own very nicely in that area. Someone should notify The Royal Guardsmen. (Raise your hand if you get that reference…)

This does not necessarily represent a failure of the F-22, which was designed to be king of the skies from the perspective of modern warfare in the air, which is increasingly considered to be a long distance affair. (I’ve seen the results spun both ways, so who knows?) However, the prospect of German pilots flying Eurofighters going up against American pilots in their newest and best was too fascinating not to post. And while, on one hand, it is easy to imagine a future match up for real given what prophecy indicates is ahead, on the other hand the more likely scenario might be F-22 versus F-22 (after all, they are currently allies, and we share when the price is right) or, more depressing, Americans in ultralights with slingshots versus the F-22’s we sold to Europe for a steal in our “Going Out of Business” garage sale.

With the way things are going, we might be grateful for a lone beagle in a Sopwith Camel. Hopefully Britain won’t have sold all of those, too.

[EDIT, 1/16/2014: As alluded to above, Bible prophecy speaks of a coming conflict of vast scope, with the United States & Great Britain on one side and Europe on the other, with Europe victorious and the US & UK crushed beyond recognition. It may be hard to see now, but prophecy is about highlighting those things that are hard to imagine now before they become easy to see. If you’re interested in putting that prophecy to the test for yourself, here are links to two free books from Tomorrow’s World that walk you through your Bible and history on the matter: The United States and Great Britain in Prophecy and The Beast of Revelation: Myth, Metaphor or Soon-Coming Reality? All the material on that website is completely free (Matt. 10:8), whether you want to read it there, download it as a PDF or e-book, or even request a physical copy or the book to be sent to you.]

The United States and Great Britain in Prophecy   The Beast of Revelation: Myth, Metaphor or Soon-Coming Reality?

21 thoughts on “The F-22 Raptor versus the Eurofighter Typhoon: And the winner is…

  1. This scenario will change when the Eurofighter is equipped with the meteor missile in three years. It may completely negate the F-22’s range advantage. It extends it’s range by being a ramjet and not a rocket. It also has the ability to reacquire a target,

  2. When I first read your post, I thought about WWII. Japanese fighters were better at long range combat, but American fighters were better at close quarters. It was a game of who caught the other by surprise. Mr. Morris caught me with surprise about the meteor missile.

    The Europeans are developing some scary technology. The German Leopard tank is suppose to match, or might be better than the American Abram’s. And they’re developing a ship-fired cruise missile that take out an aircraft carrier at extremely long ranges. (Why would the Germans be interested in that?)

    It’s a big game. Every country plots what they would do, if a major war broke out, and then they build the weapon systems to match their plans,

    What scares me? Everybody is waiting for Europe to build this giant army. We don’t have to worry about the end-time, until Europe builds this giant army. That’s not what I’ve been reading. EU military planning is built around the idea of producing a large, robust army in a relatively short amount of time. If everybody is waiting for the Europeans to build a giant army before the end-time begins, then we just might be caught off guard.

  3. Great point, Steve. It’s one thing to look at things as they currently are and loosely speculate, but deciding based on current factors that there’s lots of time left is like setting yourself up to be caught unprepared by the “thief in the night.” If God decides that it’s “go time” then things can come together with remarkable speed. We shouldn’t forget that although we knew that East & West Germany would reconcile in some way–and had said so decades before it happened–the speed with which it occurred was startling!

    No one should wait before they get serious about watching and praying.

  4. But we know that other countries often have what they say they don’t, already in tow. They may have their army that way. Just not professing it. There are things yet to happen in that respect. The thing that caught in my mind was, are these some of the fantastic weapons that Satan deceives them into attacking Christ at His return, building the weapons and perfecting them now. People generally follow the one with the best weaponry because they want to be on the right side, the winning side. They are deceived so they don’t know the right side.
    It is a very good post Mr. Smith. Thank you.

  5. Guess where the guns on the Abrams are made? What is the preferred sub-machine gun of US special forces? Which main battle tank did the Saudi’s put in a purchase order for because it surpassed the Abrams in their evaluation? In the second world war, superior numbers defeated superior technology when German and American forces clashed. I think that may be reversed in any future conflict between them.

  6. Norbert

    From the little I understand about the role technology and how it is put to use in real wartime, it’s not always a case of my dad is bigger than your dad. The race does not always go to the swift. There can be numerous conditions to factor in. I remember a historian commenting that the best general in the Russian army was General Winter, who is not a person but the season of the year. Then there’s having key mechanical failures at the wrong time and also one side implements a stragedy that results in a victory even though they were outgunned. In one way it can be time and chance and in another way it can be; “till you know that the most High rules in the kingdom of men, and gives it to whomsoever he will.” Dan 4:25

    I have known a few people that are interested in modern warfare and it can be a fascinating subject, but from my point of view when the boots start marching, all it can turn out to be is a bunch of bravado.

  7. ptv83

    numbers VS technology, sure.. but it’s not initial numbers it’s manufacturing numbers. and nobody should be able to manufacture more or faster than the USA.. and lets face it OIL production and usage would come into play as well. , US produces half of its required oil and canada has the 3rd largest proven oil reserves in the world and already conservatively produces over a million barrels a day in surplus which it ships south.

    and if for some strange reason war did break out and automotive plants are again reconfigured for aviation production, southern ontario is the number one vehicle producing region in north america, in terms of numbers and it’s factories have the highest skilled workers in the industry.. in theory the USA should have enough manufacturing power to tip the numbers game in their favour, though southern ontario alone would be able to crank out f-35’s like nobodies business should the need ever arise. (heck, the raw materials are already all produced “in-house”, so to speak)

  8. Raptor1

    For those of you speculating that the METEOR would somehow equalize the Raptor’s HUGE BVR advantage: Tell us again exactly HOW you’re targeting the Raptor at 100 miles? 🙂 You can make a 1000-mile range missile if you want, it doesn’t matter a lick if it your aircraft or the kissile seeker can’t SEE what it’s supposed to be hitting, let alone ID’ing it as a Raptor and not your wingman. By the Germans’ own admissions, the Rapor is nearly unbeatable BVR because it goes undetected, NOT because their missiles can’t reach it. Strapping on a big missile to technology that we already see is unable to target a Raptor until nearly within WVR ranges, only gets you targeted sooner!

    [Hope you don’t mind the very tiny edit at the end, Raptor1, and thanks a lot for your comment! — WGS]

  9. Raptor1

    There’s a very BIG reason the Raptor is not for sale; and why we passed on an IRST and HMDS; and why it has to be handcuffed against the best 4.5 gen out there in order for them to have an opportuinty to survive for training. Anyone that thinks the Raptor would not sweep the skies of ANY 4th++ gen fighter has no clue what the Raptor embodies… But here’s a PARTIAL list of what NO other fielded aircraft has: Fully integrated avionics, powered by CRAY-class computing power; a 30+-antennae passive detection system in the ALR-94 that can DETECT, geoLOCATE, TRACK, and TARGET any threat out there beyond their own sensor range (clearly demonstrated in exercises where it was out-numbered and defenders had AWACS and ground support); ALL-ASPECT stealth, down to the nozzles, which provides a radar cross-section in its worst aspect (rear) that’s at least 100 times smaller than the EFs best (front) aspect… From the front, F-22 reduces that another 10-fold!; Supercruise capability of Mach 1.7+ (Claims about F-16 and EF pilots having legit Super-Cruise ignores that they can’t carry squat into the fight against a Mach 1.8 Raptor packing 8 AAMs and 500 rounds of ammo!); Operational altitude of 55,000 ft+ (other fighters can REACJH that height; the -22 OWNS those heights); Very high angle of attack; a radar system that uses LPI for stealth, has a VERY long range, and is powerful enough to ID, track and target you from those ranges, usually without you knowing about it; maneuverability equal to the best of them, in an airframe that’s bigger and far more capable. Did I forget anything? 🙂

  10. IRST and HMDS were deleted from F-22 design due to cost overruns. And F-22 was never “handicuffed” against opponents in exercises, in its internal exercises USAF assumed 90% Pk for BVR missiles; historically, BVR missile Pk was 6 – 8%.

    Passive detection system you are mentioning works only if enemy uses their own radar, and noone flying against stealth aircraft is going to do that. F-22s radar, meanwhile, will get detected by Typhoon’s RWR. As for F-22s AoA capability, unlike with Rafale and Gripen, F-22’s capability is dependant on post-stall, which leaves aircraft vulnerable in dogfight. F-22s radar was unable to target Typhoon with its jammer on from more than about 40 kilometers. Typhoon has also proven to be able to outmaneuver F-22, and in dogfight, bigger airframe is huge disadvantage.

  11. Mark Cherry

    And any updates to the F-22, superior training, not to mention a follow on to the F-22 make all these points irrelevant…

  12. Hey, I hope you’re right, Mr. Cherry! This post is eight years old, so I am sure that a lot has changed—and I’ve always liked the concepts behind the F-22 (not to mention that I am an American, and naturally want to root for the home team). Of course, I’m sure they’ve been working on the Typhoon, as well. Thanks for commenting!

  13. The Typhoon is about to get an upgraded Captor E AESA radar that matches or is close to that in the F35 which itself is about as good as it gets. The Germans are playing with minor aerodynamic additions that give it even better manoeuvrability. EJ200s about to get 15% extra thrust, Thrust vectoring has long been offered by Eurojet certainly since 2009 but as this article displays, its dogfighting ability is already so good it’s questionable it would be worth the cost or the disadvantages it comes with.

  14. kennydouglasw

    It seems to me that you folks are talking about future wars being a gentlemen’s game. What technology is going to stop hundreds or thousands of in-bound missiles? Or worse, Covid-20?

What are you thinking?

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.